When Ronald Gamble first learned about black holes as a teen, he read as much as he could about them. But he noticed that researchers still had much to learn about how they worked. “The mystery of black holes really drove me to study them,” he says. 

Around the same age, Gamble started painting. This love for art soon found its way into his homework. Applying geometry from art to describe physics was “a game changer,” he says. Sketching in his physics notebooks helped him “see” the math and better understand how mathematical languages worked.  

As a theoretical astrophysicist, Gamble still combines the two.  He studies how black holes warp the shape of spacetime around them. Space and time weave together to form the fabric of the universe. A black hole’s immense mass and strong magnetic field stretches and bends light into curved paths.  

Using complex math, theorists like Gamble can draw these forces in four dimensions. These scientists are the ones “on chalkboards or whiteboards, coming up with new models to translate what we see in reality into math,” he says. The same math that explains how a shadow casts around a vase can be applied to light bending around a black hole. Sometimes, Gamble pictures himself as Marvel’s Iron Man. “I feel like Tony Stark every other day.” 

Gamble splits his time between NASA Goddard Space Flight Center in Greenbelt, Md., and the University of Maryland College Park. In this interview, he shares his advice and experience with Science News Explores. (This interview has been edited for content and readability.) 

What inspired you to pursue your career? 

I read a lot of comics growing up. My mom was a sci-fi [science fiction] nerd, so I grew up watching Star Wars and Star Trek. I would imagine these things in movies, not realizing that you could study them in real life and make a career out of it — that you could be paid to study black holes and come up with a bunch of equations to describe them. It’s crazy to think about, but you can do it if you know the math.  

My Ph.D. was the first one in astrophysics across my entire school. I had to carve this path out for myself but also leave breadcrumbs for everybody else who wants to do this behind me. Getting there took a lot of perseverance and navigating by trial and error. 

I didn’t attend an Ivy League school, or large college campus. I went to North Carolina Agricultural and Technical State University. That’s an HBCU — historically Black college or university — in Greensboro, North Carolina. Our physics department was very small, but we got a lot of support. My advisors drove me into my career field. They really made me the physicist I am today — where I can now stand on my own two feet, do science independently and lead it.  

Who inspired you to combine art and science? 

I’ve been painting since I was 16. My mom was also a biologist and a painter. Her paintings were on our walls at home. If the art was there, the science was right next to it. In college, I double majored in physics and fine arts and minored in art history. I’m inspired by so many artists throughout history. For example, Salvador Dali’s “Persistence of Memory” was partly influenced by quantum mechanics and the theory of general relativity. That’s what he visualized in his head and put into a painting. 

How do you get your best ideas? 

I study how things move, so I like to be outside observing motion. Then I write down the equation. Being a theorist, I could work virtually anywhere, so I’m not tied down to a laptop or a lab. As far as sketching out the equations, you can do that anywhere. So I’ve worked from beaches, planes, trains — places like that. In physics, you’re trying to figure out what nature is telling you and translate it into a mathematical language.  

What’s one of your biggest failures, and how did you get past it? 

I failed calculus the first time and had to take it two more times after that. I relied too much on my ability to know mathematics very well, and it hurt my ability to mature my study habits. I needed to know this math to do the physics that I wanted to do. The threat of not being able to pursue the career that I wanted really drove me to study mathematics more intimately. So I started studying with three notebooks: one for my notes, one for drawings of my notes, and then one that I actually did my work in. I had to learn not to take for granted the things that I was good at. 

What piece of advice do you wish you had been given when you were younger? 

Make sure that the loudest voice in your head is your own. Also make sure that voice is not your biggest competitor. Your inner critic cannot be louder than your inner motivator. You have to outshine and outperform yourself to grow, but you also have to give yourself the grace to fail. You learn the most in your failures.  

What should students know about pursuing careers in art and physics? 

First, do not be afraid of the math. The math will take you farther than you realize, and it will help you get everything you need to advance in your career. If you’re not good at it, that’s okay. You don’t have to be an expert, but don’t shy away from it. Second, do not allow your imagination to fade away as you advance in science. Keep your imagination and interest in science close together.

Professional surfer and scientist Cliff Kapono gets his best ideas when he’s in the ocean. “The thinking turns off, but the ideas start to pour in,” he says. To him, the connection makes complete sense because the native Hawaiian word for “idea” is the same as “wave” — nalu.

Kapono is a native Hawaiian; these are the Indigenous people of Hawaii. He grew up in Hilo, Hawaii, where he is based today, blending his lifelong passions for surfing and science daily. “I want to understand how waves move across our planet, so I can be better at catching these waves,” he says.

As a kid, all he wanted to do was surf every day, all day long. He practiced until he could surf at a professional level. “That’s the same thing that I did in science. It started off where I just wanted to take science classes and get A’s. With surfing, the equivalent is catching nice waves,” Kapono says.

Kapono is now a professional free surfer. These athletes chase the best swells around the world to earn sponsorships and media exposure. He also has time to do scientific research. For Arizona State University’s Center for Global Discovery and Conservation Science in Hilo, he studies how humans and ocean environments interact, from molecular to macro scales, through the lens of a surfer. In this interview, he shares his experience and advice with Science News Explores. (This interview has been edited for content and readability.)

How do you balance professional careers in surfing and science?

When I was younger, I didn’t think I could put the two together. But if I were to pursue a full-time career in either, I would be unhappy. So I figured out a path where I could spend just as much time inside the science lab as I am in the ocean. The Western world defines your job based upon what you get paid to do, not about what you invest your time into. I totally departed from that idea. My job is to be the best version of me. The best version of me is surfing good waves every day and understanding about the natural world through a scientific lens. 

What does surfing mean to the Native Hawaiian community?

The clearest example of a productive society is the amount of leisure time they have. If you have a highly functioning system, you have surplus time. Our society was able to invest that time into the cultural arts, such as surfing.

Surfing has been documented within our histories for close to 2,000 years. It’s not just recreation. Surfing is so deeply embedded into the Hawaiian culture. It’s in the stories, the chants and the songs. It was celebrated tremendously by all peoples — from folks who were fisher people, farmers, basket weavers, cooks, to the royalty. In the late 1800s, it began being sort of exported outside of Hawaii and demonstrated at different locations around the world. By the 1950s, it reached global fame. 

What would you consider one of your biggest successes?

A success for me is elevating scientific literacy within the surf community. As a scientist, I represent an identity in the surf community that I didn’t see growing up. I can play that role for the next surfer scientist — or maybe it’s a surfer chef or surfer lawyer — to show that you can still contribute on a professional level to multiple communities within society at the same time.

Describe a research breakthrough moment you’ve had.

I’m currently trying to identify the structural complexity of reefs at some of the best, most iconic waves around the world. It’s known as bathymetry, the study of the seafloor. I’m looking specifically at where certain famous waves break. Over the last five years, I’ve been traveling around mapping the characteristics of these different reefs. I’m seeing similarities between these waves based upon their reef structure. A personal interest and curiosity is now supported by research — that keeps me excited. Finding out that, by learning more about the reef, I can be a better surfer is a breakthrough for me. 

What’s one of your biggest failures, and how did you get past that?

I have gotten a lot of F’s in my academic career, but I’ve never felt like getting an F was a failure. My dad would always tell me that failure is an event, not a person. It’s just a moment that passes, so it’s not going to stay with you very long. So, I’ve actually embraced a lot of failures. I failed at many science experiments. I failed at catching a wave. I fail to ride the wave all the way to the shore. Sometimes I fail to even stand up. I fail in obtaining resources to do my science. I fail in knowing what the right answer is. I fail daily. But failing is not a bad thing if it helps you to find the successes. I don’t feel embarrassed or ashamed to fail anymore. I just tell myself that it’s all going to work out in the end if I don’t let the failure stop me.

Who were your role models growing up?

I always looked up to elders in the Hawaiian community that maybe aren’t super famous but, within our communities, really treated me kindly and shared knowledge with me. Whether they were teachers, family members or professional surfers, I always looked up to people who were willing to share what knowledge they had with me. Anybody who helped me to navigate the difficulties of being on an island in a small community and feeling like there’s a bigger world out there. Anybody who helped me to get to a higher level of thinking and develop my intelligence, from my academic intelligence to my emotional intelligence. The people who helped me understand more about the world and myself.

What do you do in your spare time?

I volunteer for a scientific group called Mega Lab that is trying to develop technology to protect the ocean and give it to communities who need it the most. The biggest project we have going on right now is mapping a million reefs by 2030. We’re teaching 10,000 citizen scientists how to map the reef with their GoPro, cell phone or camera. The program is called Map to Adapt. Anyone can join the Mega Lab — artists, skaters, ballerinas or firefighters. There are no requirements, you just come by and start doing science together. We just want to have a good time and party for the planet.

Why do science and surfing fit together so well?

Having an interest in science really has helped me to be a better surfer. And my interest in surfing has helped me to become a better scientist. Science is like a superpower for me. It’s really fun to be able to jump from a community that is so focused on riding a wave into one that wonders about how that wave moves. To me, that’s a pretty epic way to live.